Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:26 pm

OCs_Inner_Eagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:IB's post is the kiss of death for the ACC. I am interested to see the fallout of the lawsuits. I am also interested to see if ESPN is going to get boxed-out of college sports. The other broadcasters teamed up to get the B10, and now seem to smell blood in the water with Disney trying to exit ESPN. If the rumor is true, the idea would clearly be to create a national minor league where athletes are employees and they would own the major media markets. ESPN would be relegated to a regional network with teams in a handful of Southern States.

I have a passing interest in this because BC is far outside these conversations. We don't deserve to be involved and (even if we had Wake-like performance) we have no interest as an institution to be a minor league sponsor. I assume the next step for the B10 is to start culling the heard. Drop Rutgers, Northwestern and Purdue... pick-up ND, UNC and UVA.


Question for the lawyers: will antitrust issues arise with all this realignment?

I would think if/when the B10 and SEC go pro (player as paid employees with salary-first compensation), they can't just do it alone and close off everyone else without risking antitrust issues. So would they want the B12 as a third professional outlet, with aspiring baby killers amongst the G5 as a fourth pro outlet? These programs would operate much like G-League Ignite and Overtime Elite but with well-established brand names associated with the colleges as the labels rather than "FC Barcelona" or "AC Milan".

Then I guess the ACC remnants would join schools like Northwestern and maybe Stanford to spearhead a more "traditional" college model with full rides plus stipends as the players' compensation. The traditional kids could still aspire to join the NFL as usual after 3-5 years, or could use the trads as a stepping stone to the sub-pros before jumping all the way to the NFL. Or of course they could take the free degree as good enough, with the caveat that they produce on the field in the trad division.


Antitrust isn't any issue unless you start creating uniform rules. Currently, we have a Wild West minor league set-up where there is no draft, there is no salary cap, there is no pay scale and essentially everyone is a free agent after every season. That is totally antitrust compliant.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:58 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
OCs_Inner_Eagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:IB's post is the kiss of death for the ACC. I am interested to see the fallout of the lawsuits. I am also interested to see if ESPN is going to get boxed-out of college sports. The other broadcasters teamed up to get the B10, and now seem to smell blood in the water with Disney trying to exit ESPN. If the rumor is true, the idea would clearly be to create a national minor league where athletes are employees and they would own the major media markets. ESPN would be relegated to a regional network with teams in a handful of Southern States.

I have a passing interest in this because BC is far outside these conversations. We don't deserve to be involved and (even if we had Wake-like performance) we have no interest as an institution to be a minor league sponsor. I assume the next step for the B10 is to start culling the heard. Drop Rutgers, Northwestern and Purdue... pick-up ND, UNC and UVA.


Question for the lawyers: will antitrust issues arise with all this realignment?

I would think if/when the B10 and SEC go pro (player as paid employees with salary-first compensation), they can't just do it alone and close off everyone else without risking antitrust issues. So would they want the B12 as a third professional outlet, with aspiring baby killers amongst the G5 as a fourth pro outlet? These programs would operate much like G-League Ignite and Overtime Elite but with well-established brand names associated with the colleges as the labels rather than "FC Barcelona" or "AC Milan".

Then I guess the ACC remnants would join schools like Northwestern and maybe Stanford to spearhead a more "traditional" college model with full rides plus stipends as the players' compensation. The traditional kids could still aspire to join the NFL as usual after 3-5 years, or could use the trads as a stepping stone to the sub-pros before jumping all the way to the NFL. Or of course they could take the free degree as good enough, with the caveat that they produce on the field in the trad division.


Antitrust isn't any issue unless you start creating uniform rules. Currently, we have a Wild West minor league set-up where there is no draft, there is no salary cap, there is no pay scale and essentially everyone is a free agent after every season. That is totally antitrust compliant.


We live in interesting times. I believe that (in the next three years) these two "heavies", lets call them those 32 teams have worked out a deal where they wind up only playing one another. I expect that to be the case.

Clemson, F$U, Miami, UNC, Oregon, maybe even Notre Dame, they are looking at those 32 teams, and they are saying to themselves

that's not fair. We bring way more than what we take in. We want into the club


and there is no more room at the inn.

I don't think the SEC or the B1G(16) would go to 17 even if Notre Dame went down on their knees and begged and said Hail Marys. And when is the last time a conference kicked a team OUT of its conference? Temple? I can't think of any school that was given the boot from a major other than Temple. I think Purdue, Vandy, and Northwestern are safe even if they may be sweating things at the moment.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:15 pm

I'm sure Northwestern is breathing a sigh of relief.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby eepstein0 on Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:42 am

I'm still awaiting to hear the value UVA brings the the Big10. The Big10 already has bad football teams and basketball teams who lose to 15-16 seeds in the 1st round.

The ACC years and years ago should've done a full merge with the Pac-12 and developed some East-West thing where the Championship alternates between Vegas and Charlotte. Maybe you play one conference game a year against a team from the other division or something.

What's people's perspective on where BC lands in all of this? Does the Admin want the Patriot League or some weird cast-off league that resembles the AAC?
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby OCs_Inner_Eagle on Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:37 pm

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I'm still awaiting to hear the value UVA brings the the Big10. The Big10 already has bad football teams and basketball teams who lose to 15-16 seeds in the 1st round.

The ACC years and years ago should've done a full merge with the Pac-12 and developed some East-West thing where the Championship alternates between Vegas and Charlotte. Maybe you play one conference game a year against a team from the other division or something.

What's people's perspective on where BC lands in all of this? Does the Admin want the Patriot League or some weird cast-off league that resembles the AAC?


The B10 traditionally has cared a ton about status as an AAU Research I institution, as that means bringing in a lot of government and foundation funding. From that standpoint UVA would be highly attractive. They also have the capacity to perform well in sports and they cover a reasonably large population for fan interest between Metro DC, Hampton Roads, Richmond and Roanoke. So if B10 schools become clubs sponsoring professional competition but want to maintain a fig leaf of concern for academics, UVA would seem to fit very well.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:54 pm

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... stribution
So... the FSU President has spent a year trying to secure a bid to the B10 or SEC. They have looked at what it would take to leave. All they know is that there isn't a quick answer. A change in revenue share through 2036 neither appeases them nor does it make any sense for the rest of the conference to financially fluff a "partner" who has given notice that they are leaving. The problem that exists is that the B10 and SEC hit homeruns at the perfect time... and the market is now completely dry with ESPN moving away from Broadcast rights. The ACC deal is awesome when compared to the B12 and P12, but should be better when compared to B10 and SEC. However, ESPN is in no position to true-up that difference with the Big 2. So... FSU has to go to court or just be marginalized as a departing member for the next 10 years.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:57 pm

OCs_Inner_Eagle {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I'm still awaiting to hear the value UVA brings the the Big10. The Big10 already has bad football teams and basketball teams who lose to 15-16 seeds in the 1st round.

The ACC years and years ago should've done a full merge with the Pac-12 and developed some East-West thing where the Championship alternates between Vegas and Charlotte. Maybe you play one conference game a year against a team from the other division or something.

What's people's perspective on where BC lands in all of this? Does the Admin want the Patriot League or some weird cast-off league that resembles the AAC?


The B10 traditionally has cared a ton about status as an AAU Research I institution, as that means bringing in a lot of government and foundation funding. From that standpoint UVA would be highly attractive. They also have the capacity to perform well in sports and they cover a reasonably large population for fan interest between Metro DC, Hampton Roads, Richmond and Roanoke. So if B10 schools become clubs sponsoring professional competition but want to maintain a fig leaf of concern for academics, UVA would seem to fit very well.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... nstability
"Big Ten presidents also could see more academic synergy in looking east, as Virginia and North Carolina are both coveted by the SEC and Big Ten because they offer new markets, big cities and fertile recruiting grounds."
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby claver2010 on Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:45 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38122958/florida-state-consider-leaving-acc-due-revenue-distribution
So... the FSU President has spent a year trying to secure a bid to the B10 or SEC. They have looked at what it would take to leave. All they know is that there isn't a quick answer. A change in revenue share through 2036 neither appeases them nor does it make any sense for the rest of the conference to financially fluff a "partner" who has given notice that they are leaving. The problem that exists is that the B10 and SEC hit homeruns at the perfect time... and the market is now completely dry with ESPN moving away from Broadcast rights. The ACC deal is awesome when compared to the B12 and P12, but should be better when compared to B10 and SEC. However, ESPN is in no position to true-up that difference with the Big 2. So... FSU has to go to court or just be marginalized as a departing member for the next 10 years.


even if FSU could get out of the GOR (they can't) and will pay up to get out (they won't) why would ESPN pay more than double to get them in the SEC while they're undergoing huge cost reductions
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:02 am

LOL FSU. Not relevant.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:12 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:LOL FSU. Not relevant.

I think FSU football can be relevant they just haven’t been. The reason why the ACC deal sucks is that Miami and FSU have been Willie-Taggart-bad. The result has been a TV Deal based upon Wake being the conference torch bearer. Similar things happened with B12 while Texas has been hot garbage. SEC and B10 top flight brands are consistently great. That is why they make billions a year (in spite having a bottom 40% of each conference equally as awful as the bottom 40% of the ACC or P12). This all about the alphas realizing they are betas and fleeing to a league where they aren’t expected to do anything but collect a check.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby DomingoOrtiz on Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:05 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:LOL FSU. Not relevant.

I think FSU football can be relevant they just haven’t been.


True but I think they are overplaying their hand.
If this all were to start from scratch and every school was a free agent (no conference affiliations, no TV deals... ), which would be the most desirable schools for the newly forming conferences? Would any ACC school be in the top 10?
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:43 am

The best brands in all of sports would be:
OSU, Mich, Texas, USC, UGA, Bama, Florida, Oklahoma and ND in their own echelon

3 of those 9 programs are scheduled to flip conferences. That alone can account for the discrepancy in finances. FSU is not arguing that they are better than any of those programs. They are arguing that they are better than schools like Vandy, Miss St, Rutgers, Arkansas and Minnesota. Adding FSU is not going to raise any of these conferences payouts... they may just get a pro rata match.

Hell... FSU isn't even complaining about the ACC. They are throwing a jealous temper tantrum about others are doing better. This is like a successful doctor bitching about his two "idiot friends from college" doing financially better because one went into Private Equity and the other started a Hedge Fund. Whatever... the semipro model is awful. Enjoy watching the RubberDucks play the Sod Poodles.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby eagle33 on Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:35 am

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:LOL FSU. Not relevant.

I think FSU football can be relevant they just haven’t been.


True but I think they are overplaying their hand.
If this all were to start from scratch and every school was a free agent (no conference affiliations, no TV deals... ), which would be the most desirable schools for the newly forming conferences? Would any ACC school be in the top 10?


if they had a hand they would have already played it. and no, there isn't a single acc school that's considred a top 10 brand. many would be included in new from scratch super confences but we would not, thanks to gdf.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:50 am

eagle33 {l Wrote}: many would be included in new from scratch super confences but we would not, thanks to gdf.

GDF is to blame. But, most blame lays at the feet of Leahy (and the BOT who facilitated his malfeasance). The purposeful downgrading of athletics to just collect welfare checks will be the legacy of the Leahy Era.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby eagle33 on Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:22 am

Cash-Grabbing Power Players Are Sending College Sports Into a Soulless Spiral

https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/02/college-sports-soulless-spiral
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby eepstein0 on Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:49 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
eagle33 {l Wrote}: many would be included in new from scratch super confences but we would not, thanks to gdf.

GDF is to blame. But, most blame lays at the feet of Leahy (and the BOT who facilitated his malfeasance). The purposeful downgrading of athletics to just collect welfare checks will be the legacy of the Leahy Era.


BC was never going to be involved in the semi-pro/super conference models IRREGARDLESS of their investment in athletics.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby hansen on Thu Aug 03, 2023 1:05 pm

Big Ten estimates that Oregon and Washington are only worth 30-40 million and would be dilutive to the 70 million those schools receive now. Thus, Thames speculates that if they are offered it will be at a reduced rate for the life of their contract. I'm guessing if the remaining three corners leave to the Big-12, then they have no choice.

p.s. realignment talk is dumb
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby innocentbystander on Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:52 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:LOL FSU. Not relevant.

I think FSU football can be relevant they just haven’t been. The reason why the ACC deal sucks is that Miami and FSU have been Willie-Taggart-bad. The result has been a TV Deal based upon Wake being the conference torch bearer. Similar things happened with B12 while Texas has been hot garbage. SEC and B10 top flight brands are consistently great. That is why they make billions a year (in spite having a bottom 40% of each conference equally as awful as the bottom 40% of the ACC or P12). This all about the alphas realizing they are betas and fleeing to a league where they aren’t expected to do anything but collect a check.


This is an excellent comment, dare I say, an outstanding one. "Alpha" Nebraska fleeing to a league where the only thing they HAVE done for the last 10+ years is collect a check is proof positive. Same could be said of Texas A&M. They are now betas. And they are okay with that because

$$$$$$$ > winning.

The only thing I would add is that no matter WHO the "torch bearer" was in the SEC, most likely the result would be nothing but love and big $$$$$ from TV. We are not talking just two top flight brands. There are half a dozen. Or more. Seriously, if it wasn't Alabama or Georgia that was doing great (playing almost perfectly), the SEC would still be rich and powerful even if it were a super powerful LSU, or Florida, or Tennessee, or maybe even an Ole Miss. Vandy? No. That would be their Wake Forest.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:35 pm

Wonder why Bubba Cunningham (whose team would have a place anywhere) was so flippant about FSU’s departure? Wonder if he figures they could buy ND into the conference with the money from FSU’s exit fee.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby TontoKowalski on Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:04 pm

Watching a bunch of mouth-breathing administrators slowly and painfully dismantle the trough that has fattened them is one of the more compelling spectacles college football has offered in many years. Their thinking seems to be that if they cut off their legs, the extra blood will flow to their penis and make it bigger. Fascinating.

Winnowing out BC, Iowa State, WSU, ASU etc has a negligible impact, probably; but the accumulated effect of pruning all of the BCs, ISUs, etc from the entirety of college football's network eventually eliminates a material amount of fans, dollars, and interest. The Chosen Schools will end up with a larger percentage of a much smaller pie - so short-sighted.

Once alienated, those refugee fans won't return - in fact, they'll likely be permanently embittered (after all, part of beings a sports fan is having a long memory and holding long grudges) and do something insanely self-loathing like follow MLS teams.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:18 pm

TontoKowalski {l Wrote}:Watching a bunch of mouth-breathing administrators slowly and painfully dismantle the trough that has fattened them is one of the more compelling spectacles college football has offered in many years. Their thinking seems to be that if they cut off their legs, the extra blood will flow to their penis and make it bigger. Fascinating.

Winnowing out BC, Iowa State, WSU, ASU etc has a negligible impact, probably; but the accumulated effect of pruning all of the BCs, ISUs, etc from the entirety of college football's network eventually eliminates a material amount of fans, dollars, and interest. The Chosen Schools will end up with a larger percentage of a much smaller pie - so short-sighted.

Once alienated, those refugee fans won't return - in fact, they'll likely be permanently embittered (after all, part of beings a sports fan is having a long memory and holding long grudges) and do something insanely self-loathing like follow MLS teams.

I've mentioned this in the past. But, the reason why college sports has been popular is because fans and alums of 100 teams hold lottery tickets each year. And, while 90% have no chance to collect, it still serves as a source of engagement for massive customer bases to pay attention to the weekly drawings. As members of a fanbase whose President gleefully thrust his vows of poverty and celibacy onto the fanbase, we still consumed college sports because BC's tribal association with Clemson gave us a rooting interest in Alabama getting a second loss on the year in an otherwise meaningless match-up against Auburn in the Iron Bowl. Now... 60% of that customer base is being banished and will follow college sports as fervently as NYU alums (which means... not at all). College Administrators (and the political operatives on State-run BOTs) are once again showing that: those who can, do... those who can't, teach... those who can't teach, administrate.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby JesuitIvy on Fri Aug 04, 2023 3:49 pm

I agree with the first half of what you said. But the real blame goes on all these ADs, who can't balance a budget and have made fielding a successful football team somehow a matter of just money. I bet we are just past peak college football media rights. Cable bundling meant every household was paying ESPN and whatever conference network. Now you're gonna have to find a way to get fewer people to pay up more because of streaming/cordcutting. There's 40 million fewer households with cable than there were when the last great round of realignment happened. ADs should've been focused on consolidating the conference positions - maybe agreeing to some sort of cost spending cap? - and exploring new lines of revenue.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:36 pm

JesuitIvy {l Wrote}:But the real blame goes on all these ADs, who can't balance a budget and have made fielding a successful football team somehow a matter of just money.

The real problem is putting failed jocks into a role where they can do anything with money. These are not smart people. Why would you had them the keys to any money-making enterprise?

Nonetheless, I believe the reason why the money is more a factor now than before is that NIL and the Portal has shown a glimpse as to what is about to happen. FB Players will soon be deemed employees. They will unionize. Then, each conference will negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that will designate a certain percentage of the TV revenues for the players. You can see where this is leading... right? The conferences that make the most will be able to pay the most. You will instantly have the best athletes consolidate into the conferences that pay the most. So... the existential crisis over which FSU is throwing a tantrum is that their well-established bag men no longer will be able to buy players under the table when the B20 and SEC can pay them more in the open.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby DomingoOrtiz on Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:19 pm

Thamel reporting:
Oregon and Washington have been officially voted into the Big Ten by the league’s presidents.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby innocentbystander on Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:28 pm

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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby innocentbystander on Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:30 pm

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:Thamel reporting:
Oregon and Washington have been officially voted into the Big Ten by the league’s presidents.


Whoa, didn't see that coming.

An 18 team conference?
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby innocentbystander on Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:39 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
JesuitIvy {l Wrote}:But the real blame goes on all these ADs, who can't balance a budget and have made fielding a successful football team somehow a matter of just money.

The real problem is putting failed jocks into a role where they can do anything with money. These are not smart people. Why would you had them the keys to any money-making enterprise?

Nonetheless, I believe the reason why the money is more a factor now than before is that NIL and the Portal has shown a glimpse as to what is about to happen. FB Players will soon be deemed employees. They will unionize. Then, each conference will negotiate a collective bargaining agreement that will designate a certain percentage of the TV revenues for the players. You can see where this is leading... right? The conferences that make the most will be able to pay the most. You will instantly have the best athletes consolidate into the conferences that pay the most. So... the existential crisis over which FSU is throwing a tantrum is that their well-established bag men no longer will be able to buy players under the table when the B20 and SEC can pay them more in the open.


Until the federal government steps in with the Justice Department, Lawyers, and lawsuits, demanding that the girl's water polo team (girls on scholarship) receive the exact same financial compensation as the 85 football players because of Title-IX legislation. The players can unionize all they want. Their pay is EQUALIZED by federal legislation, collective bargaining agreements be damned.

The B1G(10 uh, 11, no 14, whoops, 16, make that 18) may try to pay them more in the open. But they have to pay money for Mary Sue on girl's "crew" even though there is no gate and no one pays to watch those scholarship athletes. How far can an athletic department subsidize? The federal government fixes all this with enforcing Title IX legislation. Feminism wins.
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby HJS on Fri Aug 04, 2023 5:48 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
OCs_Inner_Eagle {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:I'm still awaiting to hear the value UVA brings the the Big10. The Big10 already has bad football teams and basketball teams who lose to 15-16 seeds in the 1st round.

The ACC years and years ago should've done a full merge with the Pac-12 and developed some East-West thing where the Championship alternates between Vegas and Charlotte. Maybe you play one conference game a year against a team from the other division or something.

What's people's perspective on where BC lands in all of this? Does the Admin want the Patriot League or some weird cast-off league that resembles the AAC?


The B10 traditionally has cared a ton about status as an AAU Research I institution, as that means bringing in a lot of government and foundation funding. From that standpoint UVA would be highly attractive. They also have the capacity to perform well in sports and they cover a reasonably large population for fan interest between Metro DC, Hampton Roads, Richmond and Roanoke. So if B10 schools become clubs sponsoring professional competition but want to maintain a fig leaf of concern for academics, UVA would seem to fit very well.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... nstability
"Big Ten presidents also could see more academic synergy in looking east, as Virginia and North Carolina are both coveted by the SEC and Big Ten because they offer new markets, big cities and fertile recruiting grounds."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... rida-state
“The likelier scenario has commissioner Tony Petitti looking to the East and the ACC, if the league starts to splinter in the wake of Florida State's exit-strategy comments this week. North Carolina and Virginia would be primary targets, sources told ESPN. Both are premier public schools and would excite a group of Big Ten presidents and chancellors that still places a premium on "cultural fit." Florida State would be more of a stretch, and league sources cautioned against an immediate push.”
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby claver2010 on Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:31 pm

even with today's news of fsu looking at the sweet saudi money this still applies

claver2010 {l Wrote}:even if FSU could get out of the GOR (they can't) and will pay up to get out (they won't) why would ESPN pay more than double to get them in the SEC while they're undergoing huge cost reductions
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Re: Maryland may actually be leaving the ACC

Postby JesuitIvy on Fri Aug 04, 2023 7:55 pm

Can someone write a script that auto deletes the phrase 'cultural fit'? Jesus, no Big Ten president - or anyone - gets excited by cultural fut
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